loehle-and-scafetta-on-climate-change-attribution

http://benthamscience.com/open/toascj/articles/V005/74TOASCJ.pdf

 

 

CLIMATE Etc

 http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/25/loehle-and-scafetta-on-climate-change-attribution/

 

vukcevic | July 26, 2011 at 3:07 pm | Reply

Pekka Pirilä | July 26, 2011 at 1:17 pm | Reply
The role of Saturn is important in the 60 year period, but the influence of Saturn on the Sun is really minuscule. The long distance of the Saturn…

Mr. Pirilä
Distance of Saturn doesn’t really matter much, if you whish to consider that there are effects different to gravitational one. I suggest have a careful look at this NASA’s link:

Observe that a large fraction of the solar system, in its equatorial plane, gets engulfed with the CME.
http://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/pictures/Sept09/Fig8_7.MagCloud.gif
Underlining effects are close circuits (closing at the solar surface) of magnetic field and electric currents. Both magnetic field and electric current are partially short-circuited by the huge magnetospheres of both Jupiter and Saturn (known as magnetic reconnection).
Every 19.859 years (Leohle and Scafetta -20years cycle) this short-circuiting is particularly effective since both planets find themselves in the same direction. Now imagine our little Earth zipping in between, its tiny magnetic field gets zapped by these huge currents:
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/HmL.htm
Heliosphere is highly squashed in the head on direction so the effectiveness of the zap is far more severe when both Jupiter and Saturn find themselves in this head on direction. This happens every 59.5 years (Leohle and Scafetta -60years cycle).
For more details see:
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/LFC5.htm
and effect on the climate at:
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/MF.htm
There is your mechanism.
Now lets there be peace among men!

nicola scafetta | July 26, 2011 at 3:32 pm | Reply

I see that somebody started to think.

vukcevic | July 26, 2011 at 3:46 pm | Reply

What do you mean by started? The hypothesis was formulated some two years ago, as an ego recovery medicine, after the relentless ridicule by certain Dr.S of WUWT.
It could be a ‘decent effort’ but unfortunately it rests on a set of wobbly glass legs.
Since then I waste my time with more realistic parameters.

 nicola scafetta | July 26, 2011 at 4:06 pm | Reply

started in this blog.

  tonyb | July 26, 2011 at 4:19 pm | Reply

Vuk at 3.07

That was a very nice post. I look forward to your longer article on this fascinating subject.
tonyb

    tallbloke | July 26, 2011 at 3:36 pm | Reply

Nice summary Vuk, and very interesting research you’ve been doing. The geomag field clearly is linked to the heliomag field, and so that supports your ideas about Jupiter and Saturn too. The NOAA geomag data on you MF page resembles the solar activity of the C20th too. Love that arctic temperature correlation.

      Craig Loehle | July 26, 2011 at 4:00 pm | Reply

Excellent. Very nice!. Thank you. I had been thinking about magnetic fields but did not have sufficient info on them.

     vukcevic | July 26, 2011 at 4:11 pm | Reply

I wouldn’t bet much money on it though. Reality is most likely more down to earth (or the Earth), but just in case here is a quick reminder:
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/LL.htm

          nicola scafetta | July 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm | Reply

Well, people need to start from somewhere

      tonyb | July 26, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Reply

Nicola

I’ve been tryng to persuade Vuk for some time to produce a longer article that puts his thoughts into a considered and logical format. Perhaps you can try and persuade him

I think he is producing some very interesting ideas that need to be properly tested and proven.

tonyb

      nicola scafetta | July 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm | Reply

I think that I have already told him to put his ideas in a decent format many times, as I usually told to others like him.

However, an article does not need to be long. He needs simply to start focusing on just one topic he believes that he undesrtood well and can be well argued.

I would advice against writing a long article that would bedifficult for him to properly handle.

         Ron Cram | July 26, 2011 at 4:49 pm | Reply

Perhaps he could benefit from a co-author Nicola.

          tallbloke | July 26, 2011 at 4:57 pm | Reply

Nicola, I haven’t forgotten, and appreciate the encouragement. I’ve been thinking that my sunspot asymmetry study might be a good place to start to introduce my ‘z’ axis studies. Do you think I might be able to get some interest?
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/sunspot-asymmetry-barycentre-to-solar-centre-link/

   nicola scafetta | July 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm |

probably yes,
I do not know the mechanism, but looks like an intersting finding

§                                                                                                                                                                                 tallbloke | July 27, 2011 at 3:00 am |

Thanks for that Nicola. There are two possible mechanisms in play. Wolff and Patrone’s hypothesis regarding the higher likelihood of the release of Potential energy at the zenith point beneath the barycentre as the distance changes, and Ray Tomes hypothesis concerning the relativistic effect on matter as it progresses from the solar core to the surface.

§  tonyb | July 26, 2011 at 5:45 pm | Reply

Nicola

By ‘longer’ I merely meant longer than the few paragraphs he writes here.

He has good ideas but they tend to be random one off thoughts rather than a closely written argument. Let’s hope he takes the hint and produces something before too long.

Tonyb

WUWT

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/25/loehle-and-scafetta-calculate-0-66%c2%b0ccentury-for-agw/

 

tallbloke says:

July 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm

…….. so did you think any more about Vuk’s idea concerning the Jupiter Saturn conjunctions towards the forward moving part of the heliopause?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/25/loehle-and-scafetta-calculate-0-66%c2%b0ccentury-for-agw/#comment-707158

 

nicola scafetta says:

July 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm

About Vuk’s idea concerning the Jupiter Saturn conjunctions towards the forward moving part of the heliopause, as I said it is an interesting idea that may well fit another idea that I add to explain the phenomenon. But I cannot talk about it now. Hopefully, we will have another occasion to discuss it extensively.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/25/loehle-and-scafetta-calculate-0-66%c2%b0ccentury-for-agw/#comment-707177